00:00:09:00 - 00:00:14:09 Speaker 1 And welcome everyone back to another episode of coincide. The Memos I'm here with Doctor Lizzy 00:00:14:09 - 00:00:14:22 Speaker 1 and 00:00:14:22 - 00:00:17:01 Speaker 1 I'm Doctor Tiffany. 00:00:19:01 - 00:00:25:19 Speaker 1 It's like. It's like, how many times do you have to do this and, you know, do the recording over and over again, but we're so excited that you're joining us. 00:00:25:19 - 00:00:42:00 Speaker 1 Follow us on Twitter. At SEO, TM, underscore pod, or email us at totn pod@gmail.com. Also check on our website at WW cotton pod.com. So doctor Lizzy. 00:00:42:03 - 00:00:50:04 Speaker 2 Hey doctor Tiffany, good afternoon or whatever time it is y'all are listening to us. 00:00:50:06 - 00:01:00:20 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. So we are talking about grounded theory today. Yes. Grounded theory. What makes a grounded theory study? This is by, 00:01:00:20 - 00:01:03:18 Speaker 1 Harley Turner and Felicity Ashton. 00:01:03:18 - 00:01:04:17 Speaker 1 And 00:01:04:17 - 00:01:16:22 Speaker 1 we wanted to come at this from a different perspective today. We wanted to be like, okay, like like similar to our our other episodes where we talked about books today, we were like, let's talk about a journal article. 00:01:17:00 - 00:01:20:04 Speaker 1 And so that is what we're doing. We're talking about a journal article. 00:01:20:04 - 00:01:27:18 Speaker 2 this article was published in the European Journal of Cardiovascular Nursing in 2021. 00:01:27:20 - 00:01:43:04 Speaker 2 And it came up and a basic grounded theory search on PubMed. That's how we found this article. And it was the only article that was that came up in the first batch of searches, or maybe at all. I don't really remember. It's been a minute since I searched this up. 00:01:43:04 - 00:01:49:11 Speaker 2 But it came up as the only articles really describe grounded theory and not be applying it. 00:01:49:13 - 00:01:52:17 Speaker 1 Right? Right, right. So let's 00:01:52:17 - 00:01:59:04 Speaker 1 take this journal, this article apart. Let's like, take it apart. Woof. 00:01:59:06 - 00:02:06:03 Speaker 2 I am here for this discussion today. And just so y'all know, this is going to be a slightly different format. It's not going to be one of us leading. 00:02:06:03 - 00:02:10:20 Speaker 2 We both read it. We both have some questions ready. We both have a lot of thoughts. 00:02:10:20 - 00:02:14:07 Speaker 2 And so should we start with a general overview. What do you think, doctor. 00:02:14:07 - 00:02:17:12 Speaker 1 Tiffany yeah, let's start with the general overview. So, 00:02:17:12 - 00:02:38:02 Speaker 1 list it the and the and I'm and they're abstract my workloads and they're abstract. It says like grounded theory or they say GT is both a research method and a research methodology. There are several different ways of doing PT which reflect the different viewpoints of the originators, those who are new to this approach to conducting qualitative research. 00:02:38:02 - 00:02:51:23 Speaker 1 This can be confusing. In this article, we outline the key characteristics of GT and describe the role of the literature review in three common GT approaches. Illustrated using exemplar studies. So 00:02:51:23 - 00:03:01:04 Speaker 1 that is the abstract for this particular piece. The purpose of this article, which is on the same page as the abstract, is 00:03:01:04 - 00:03:09:02 Speaker 1 purpose of this article is to outline the distinguishing characteristics of grounded theory and outline practical considerations for the novice researcher 00:03:09:02 - 00:03:10:17 Speaker 1 regarding the place of literature. 00:03:10:17 - 00:03:15:16 Speaker 1 Review in grounded theory. So, having said all of that. 00:03:15:16 - 00:03:24:22 Speaker 1 you think that the researchers achieve this goal, their purpose? 00:03:28:13 - 00:03:30:12 Speaker 1 I know that was a loaded question. 00:03:30:14 - 00:03:33:04 Speaker 2 It is, it is. And I think, 00:03:33:04 - 00:03:35:21 Speaker 2 I still don't see quite where you found the purpose. 00:03:35:21 - 00:03:38:17 Speaker 1 So this is at the very bottom on the second, 00:03:38:17 - 00:03:42:13 Speaker 1 on the first page. Last. And 00:03:42:15 - 00:03:44:14 Speaker 2 The first page, I see it. Okay. Thank you. 00:03:44:14 - 00:03:46:06 Speaker 2 Sometimes you need to read things. 00:03:46:06 - 00:03:49:03 Speaker 2 As I say, as we're doing a. 00:03:49:05 - 00:03:49:20 Speaker 1 Audio. 00:03:49:20 - 00:03:50:22 Speaker 2 Podcast. 00:03:51:20 - 00:04:02:00 Speaker 2 I think that yes, they describe where to put the literature review when you're doing a grounded theory article. Quite well. 00:04:02:00 - 00:04:11:22 Speaker 2 However, do I think that they outlined the distinguishing characteristics of a grounded theory? Well, no, I do not. 00:04:11:22 - 00:04:19:18 Speaker 2 Do I think that they did all of those things for a novice researcher? Really? Well, no, but that does depend on how you define novice. 00:04:19:18 - 00:04:23:10 Speaker 2 Well, and I think that's a really important point. And, you know, 00:04:23:10 - 00:04:51:18 Speaker 2 for all of you listeners out there, our goal at this podcast has always been we assume that you don't know a lot about this specific topic, and we're going to give you all of the details on it. Right? So like, I think depending on or I think back to one of my, faculty in my department in grad school who said to me we were hiring a lot of people, 00:04:51:18 - 00:04:57:19 Speaker 2 my last year of my program or my second to last year of my program, we were hiring a bunch of new people because we had a new dean and the whole thing, 00:04:57:19 - 00:04:58:21 Speaker 2 and 00:04:58:21 - 00:05:07:09 Speaker 2 I stopped it at one point and I said, how are you doing with all of these faculty candidate interviews? And like, everyone was going out for dinners and lunches and, 00:05:07:09 - 00:05:14:03 Speaker 2 oh, the whole thing. If you've been in the academic rigor for a while, it's a lot to have a lot of interviews or a lot of candidates come in. 00:05:14:03 - 00:05:23:22 Speaker 2 And she said, I just I really wish people would understand for the research talks, and I want you to file this away and do this very carefully. When you give your research talks, when you're on the job market, 00:05:23:22 - 00:05:26:18 Speaker 2 is that you are presenting to intelligent people 00:05:26:18 - 00:05:30:19 Speaker 2 who know absolutely nothing about your area of study. 00:05:32:01 - 00:05:48:07 Speaker 2 And she said if you ever, if I ever hear that you were using acronyms, I'm going to be so disappointed at you. And I was like, because that is a way to tell people that they are not part of the in-group. Right. And it's a way to make people not feel as smart. 00:05:48:07 - 00:05:55:08 Speaker 2 And when you are like in this like depth of science, right? 00:05:55:08 - 00:06:01:15 Speaker 2 It's like, okay, how many times the a nice cardiovascular disease and high blood pressure and HTC and like 00:06:01:15 - 00:06:07:17 Speaker 2 I don't even remember are HDL and LDL cholesterol, right? I don't even remember what those things stand for. 00:06:07:17 - 00:06:13:22 Speaker 2 I just know those acronyms. But when you are using 12 different kinds of acronyms in the same study, 00:06:13:22 - 00:06:22:18 Speaker 2 the average person cannot hold 12 acronyms in their head as you're talking and then they're trying to remember back to their stats classes that maybe have been five years ago. 00:06:22:18 - 00:06:24:20 Speaker 2 And then they're trying to understand 00:06:24:20 - 00:06:29:14 Speaker 2 like something else that you're talking about and apply it and understand whether or not you're doing that well. 00:06:29:14 - 00:06:33:13 Speaker 2 And all of a sudden all they can think of is, I'm not smart enough to understand this, 00:06:33:13 - 00:06:34:15 Speaker 2 but they are. 00:06:34:15 - 00:06:37:13 Speaker 2 But you are telling it in a way that makes them feel not so smart. 00:06:37:13 - 00:06:43:11 Speaker 2 And so I think a lot of times we like to throw around this word novice as though people aren't smart. 00:06:43:11 - 00:06:53:05 Speaker 2 And first of all, that's a really bad idea on what intelligence is. And intelligence studies in the first place are extremely ablest and, neuro ablest. And 00:06:53:05 - 00:06:57:19 Speaker 2 we're done and races and classes and we're done to make people not feel as smart. 00:06:57:19 - 00:07:00:20 Speaker 2 Right. And you say we're superior because blah. 00:07:00:20 - 00:07:07:08 Speaker 2 And so then when you add on terms within an academic setting of reinforcing that through novice or 00:07:07:08 - 00:07:08:21 Speaker 2 scholar or whatever, 00:07:08:21 - 00:07:14:07 Speaker 2 it adds to that. Right? And so, like the study is set to make you feel 00:07:14:07 - 00:07:16:01 Speaker 2 like if you don't understand this 00:07:16:01 - 00:07:17:06 Speaker 2 particular article, 00:07:17:06 - 00:07:21:07 Speaker 2 you are not actually a researcher, but it's written for researchers. 00:07:21:07 - 00:07:24:06 Speaker 2 And so if you're reading this, you're going, oh yeah, I'm pass another stage. 00:07:24:06 - 00:07:33:23 Speaker 2 But I still don't understand this specific methodology. Then you're going, well, I should understand it because now it's quoting all of these different people, but I don't even have the in language to get there. 00:07:33:23 - 00:07:37:09 Speaker 2 So I feel like it's done in this challenging way. 00:07:37:09 - 00:07:38:16 Speaker 1 so that was nicely. But 00:07:38:16 - 00:07:55:13 Speaker 1 I mean I feel the same way, especially since it's just using grounded theory and maybe then using the the acronym, the GT throughout the entire piece. Maybe they were trying to get down on number count, I don't know, like that could have been that could be a reason. 00:07:55:13 - 00:08:28:12 Speaker 1 I thought it was really interesting. When you go to the next page under Distinguishing features of grounded theory, the second sentence there is the first is that GT research is conducted through an inductive process. This means that the researcher is developing theory rather than testing. It must therefore remain open throughout the study. And I have to admit that was really helpful. 00:08:28:14 - 00:08:35:11 Speaker 1 Like I highlighted, I underlined it like twice, you know, I mean, that was really helpful. 00:08:35:11 - 00:08:37:15 Speaker 1 Because then I could actually see, 00:08:37:15 - 00:08:45:20 Speaker 1 feel maybe feel feel is a better word. Feel with what the researchers were talking about or where the authors are talking about 00:08:45:20 - 00:08:47:02 Speaker 1 through this piece. 00:08:47:02 - 00:08:52:08 Speaker 1 But I feel like that was the only thing that I could really grasp onto, 00:08:52:08 - 00:08:55:16 Speaker 1 Because I really felt that this entire article was just. 00:08:55:16 - 00:09:01:20 Speaker 1 It was just missing. It was missing something. It was missing even the the examples when I know we were talking before, 00:09:01:20 - 00:09:18:05 Speaker 1 we sort of recording the examples they showed or wrote about, assumed that you knew what the examples were. And you can't do that with a novice researcher. 00:09:18:06 - 00:09:45:09 Speaker 1 You can't you can't just say, so, hey, you know, this cardiovascular I'm using your example that's also in the paper, like this cardiovascular study that I did at the, the, the, the is very short. You need to kind of go a little bit in depth. Now again, maybe they were limited on word count. Who knows. But again, you can't just say this study without at least going into detail about this thing and how it's relevant to grounded theory a little bit more. 00:09:45:12 - 00:09:46:19 Speaker 1 My own opinion. 00:09:47:05 - 00:10:01:13 Speaker 2 Right? Right. I would absolutely agree with that. I did highlight a couple points where they tried to do that, but with you that this was so, so short and it just wasn't as in-depth as I wanted it to be. So 00:10:01:13 - 00:10:06:04 Speaker 2 fourth paragraph on the first page to the last paragraph on the first page, 00:10:06:04 - 00:10:07:00 Speaker 2 begins with, 00:10:07:00 - 00:10:11:14 Speaker 2 Glasser and Strauss, or the tradition of begin with blah, blah, blah. 00:10:11:14 - 00:10:16:07 Speaker 2 So the classic grounded theory text written by Glasser and Strauss. 00:10:16:07 - 00:10:19:18 Speaker 2 So I have written in my notes that this is the OG text, right? 00:10:19:18 - 00:10:35:00 Speaker 2 This is our introduction to Glasser and Strauss. Yeah. And I think that that or introduction to Grounded Theory by Glasser and Strauss. So I think this is a really important note. And to me that speaks to this like, 00:10:35:08 - 00:10:40:11 Speaker 2 Thing we do in higher ed spaces in academia a lot is we do these 00:10:40:11 - 00:10:47:11 Speaker 2 research genealogies sometimes when we're talking about things. So I think Glasser and Strauss are our starting point. 00:10:47:11 - 00:10:52:18 Speaker 2 And then we get into who bridged off of Glasser and Strauss, 00:10:52:18 - 00:10:56:17 Speaker 2 and then we have a breakdown on the next page. 00:10:56:17 - 00:11:01:19 Speaker 2 In the second column, black Syrian grounded theory. 00:11:01:21 - 00:11:17:17 Speaker 2 And then at the end of that column, we have Strauss Syrian grounded theory, which is adopted by Strauss, or in Kurt Strauss and Corbin. And then you have on the next page after that, in the first column towards the end, 00:11:17:17 - 00:11:29:07 Speaker 2 the evolution of grounded theory towards surmise. So I think that this is assuming that you're already fairly familiar with grounded theory, which goes back to that point we were talking about at the beginning of 00:11:29:07 - 00:11:33:09 Speaker 2 assuming that people already know those articles and exactly what you were saying. 00:11:33:11 - 00:11:55:04 Speaker 1 Right? Yeah. I marked all three of those in on my copy as well. But, I mean, it feels like the one thing that they stress to the reader, I almost went into Bridgerton mode, dearest to my dearest gentle reader, but whatever it is. But anyway, 00:11:55:04 - 00:12:07:20 Speaker 1 this article stresses the importance of being open in openness. And if you're not open, don't even think about grounded theory, because that's not what's going to get you to grounded theory. 00:12:07:22 - 00:12:11:06 Speaker 1 And I and I thought that was something that was my biggest takeaway 00:12:11:06 - 00:12:12:00 Speaker 1 from 00:12:12:00 - 00:12:13:05 Speaker 1 this piece. 00:12:13:05 - 00:12:18:04 Speaker 1 Because if you like the they say open at least like three times 00:12:18:04 - 00:12:28:10 Speaker 1 and minimum, you know, it's like you need to be open. You need to be open. You need to be need to do this standing other with, you know, don't don't look at the literature. 00:12:28:10 - 00:12:44:22 Speaker 1 It was like also the phases of when you were supposed to look at the literature review, which I found to be, you know, really interesting. It's like, okay, do I look at the literature review now? Do I wait until I collect the data? Do I not like, do I not look at it until after I collect the data because I need to remain open, you know? 00:12:44:22 - 00:12:47:04 Speaker 1 So I thought that was really interesting. 00:12:47:15 - 00:13:02:05 Speaker 2 Yeah, it is interesting. And I think generally the way most people approach qualitative work is with more openness from the start, right, where you would be doing a quant approach 00:13:02:05 - 00:13:03:19 Speaker 2 if you wanted one answer. 00:13:04:04 - 00:13:14:03 Speaker 2 And so like it feels like they're talking down to qualitative researchers and saying like, listen, I know you think you're doing open, you're already open, but you're not. 00:13:14:03 - 00:13:16:23 Speaker 2 And I'm not sure that was actually their intent, 00:13:16:23 - 00:13:21:03 Speaker 2 but it does sort of feel like that by the time you're finished reading this. 00:13:21:05 - 00:13:21:22 Speaker 1 Yeah. 00:13:21:22 - 00:13:24:04 Speaker 1 The you know, the one thing 00:13:24:04 - 00:13:26:20 Speaker 1 that was helpful, again, another helpful 00:13:26:20 - 00:13:28:13 Speaker 1 bit from 00:13:28:13 - 00:13:41:06 Speaker 1 excuse me, from this piece was the figure one. So if you have a chance, what we're going to do is we're going to put this article in the notes. Maybe maybe not. 00:13:41:08 - 00:13:56:12 Speaker 2 We'll we'll put the source. The source can go and find it, you know, to tell you that I found it on PubMed. So if you belong to an institution you should have access through PubMed. And PubMed is a governmental, a U.S. governmental, 00:13:56:12 - 00:14:02:05 Speaker 2 database of research articles. So everyone has access to it, whether or not you'll have access to the full article. 00:14:02:05 - 00:14:04:23 Speaker 2 Without an academic institution, I can't say, 00:14:04:23 - 00:14:10:07 Speaker 2 we can't say at all, but you should at least be able to find it from. 00:14:10:09 - 00:14:32:04 Speaker 1 The other citation. We'll put the citation up. So thank you for for catching me on that one. So was the actual figure. And I don't know about you, but I always love a good I don't know about this being a good figure, but it it it's it's somewhat helpful. You know, I mean, it kind of is a little spiral thingy and you know, I'm like, okay, like let's I'm like turning my paper around. 00:14:32:04 - 00:14:36:20 Speaker 1 So, I mean, the figure itself, you know, like I said earlier, like, I like a good figure, 00:14:36:20 - 00:14:54:06 Speaker 1 but in a paper and a it kind of walks you through, sort of. I think the one thing that I did not like about it was versus Strauss and Corbin at the top and the bottom of the figure. 00:14:54:08 - 00:14:56:20 Speaker 1 Maybe if there was a line that connected it 00:14:56:20 - 00:15:02:05 Speaker 1 instead of these two boxes that would have been more helpful. 00:15:02:07 - 00:15:13:00 Speaker 2 Oh, okay. But it's because they're emphasizing beginning and end literature reviews, whereas Sharma's is indicating in a continual literature review. 00:15:13:01 - 00:15:13:17 Speaker 1 That it. 00:15:13:18 - 00:15:19:11 Speaker 2 Doesn't. Glasser is only recommending a final literature review. 00:15:19:13 - 00:15:20:10 Speaker 1 Okay. So like, okay. 00:15:20:11 - 00:15:24:11 Speaker 2 I think that was to try to differentiate where you're doing that literature review. 00:15:24:14 - 00:15:28:13 Speaker 1 Okay. Okay. Well, maybe that's why I was like so confused. 00:15:28:15 - 00:15:35:20 Speaker 2 But it could say like strong review one and then Strauss and let review two that like might have cleared that up for you. 00:15:35:22 - 00:15:48:06 Speaker 1 That would have cleared it up for me. Yeah most definitely. Most definitely. I mean there are definitely, you know, some things that I wish I could have gotten more out of this article again. 00:15:48:06 - 00:15:55:22 Speaker 1 I don't know if it's for the novice. I have to agree with you. I, I don't think this is for the novice air quotes researcher. 00:15:55:23 - 00:15:57:11 Speaker 1 it's definitely. 00:15:57:11 - 00:16:01:14 Speaker 1 I think the better question is, is that is this a layperson's text? 00:16:01:17 - 00:16:08:02 Speaker 1 And that might be a better that might be a better question than saying, is this a novice? Is this for the novice researcher? 00:16:08:04 - 00:16:11:23 Speaker 2 Well, right. Right. Because what is novice even mean. 00:16:12:01 - 00:16:13:08 Speaker 1 Right. Exactly. 00:16:13:08 - 00:16:16:05 Speaker 2 And who gets to decide who is novice and like. 00:16:16:07 - 00:16:16:17 Speaker 1 That just. 00:16:16:22 - 00:16:20:02 Speaker 2 Feels like you're talking down to people from the jump when you say exactly. 00:16:20:02 - 00:16:24:03 Speaker 1 Exactly. So I mean, I think if we were asking ourselves, like, 00:16:24:03 - 00:16:25:05 Speaker 1 hey, 00:16:25:05 - 00:16:33:00 Speaker 1 this is for the layperson, just outlining like this is for the layperson, you know, that might be a little bit more helpful. 00:16:33:12 - 00:16:35:08 Speaker 1 Again, a lot of critiques, 00:16:35:08 - 00:16:38:15 Speaker 1 constructive critiques for this piece. 00:16:38:15 - 00:16:44:08 Speaker 2 Yeah. Well, and I think it's interesting too, that they even put in learning objectives. Did you notice that. 00:16:44:10 - 00:16:45:07 Speaker 1 I don't know that it. 00:16:45:09 - 00:16:48:06 Speaker 2 Ever seen an article that had learning objectives. 00:16:48:06 - 00:16:57:08 Speaker 2 Which I thought was really interesting. And so describe the key characteristics of a grounded theory. Well, I mean, I guess technically, 00:16:57:08 - 00:17:11:08 Speaker 2 we could look at table one or, well, table one and table two between those and say like these are key characteristics. Yeah. But I don't know that they necessarily separate them from other types of theory use. 00:17:11:10 - 00:17:12:12 Speaker 2 And 00:17:12:12 - 00:17:21:23 Speaker 2 I got really hung up on that because I teach a public health theory course. And so I spend a lot of time talking about theory and a lot of time thinking about theory. And I've taught it for the last 00:17:21:23 - 00:17:32:19 Speaker 2 three years. So I have taught hundreds of students about theory and listen to hundreds of questions or thousands maybe of questions from those hundreds of students. 00:17:32:19 - 00:17:34:12 Speaker 2 Well, what do you mean by theory? 00:17:34:12 - 00:17:42:13 Speaker 2 And so I've had to spend a lot of time thinking about what in the heck is a theory? And how do we describe theory and why is theory important? 00:17:42:13 - 00:17:46:01 Speaker 2 And so one of the things that I wanted out of this article 00:17:46:01 - 00:17:47:01 Speaker 2 was, 00:17:47:01 - 00:17:51:21 Speaker 2 why should we use grounded theory rather than a theory that already exists? 00:17:51:23 - 00:17:55:06 Speaker 2 What are we adding to the literature 00:17:55:06 - 00:17:59:03 Speaker 2 doing a grounded theory versus using somebody else's theory? 00:17:59:09 - 00:18:05:15 Speaker 2 Right. And I really wanted that in-depth analysis of why grounded theory. 00:18:05:15 - 00:18:06:22 Speaker 2 And then give it to me. 00:18:06:22 - 00:18:27:07 Speaker 2 And that's because of my perspective, right? Because I teach theory and I think about theory a lot, you know, and I love theory, I love it, I love that it answers questions about how the world works, and yet is open enough that it can be used in hundreds of different studies differently and still retain core information. 00:18:27:07 - 00:18:38:21 Speaker 2 Right. And that I can give my students the theory of reasoned action and say to them like, okay, how can we use this to prevent smoking or smoking cessation 00:18:38:21 - 00:18:43:06 Speaker 2 versus eating more kale versus, 00:18:43:06 - 00:18:48:17 Speaker 2 wearing a condom every time they're having sex? Like, those are such vast different health behaviors. 00:18:48:17 - 00:18:50:06 Speaker 1 Right? Brain can use it for that. 00:18:50:06 - 00:18:52:22 Speaker 2 We can also use it for how to meditate more, or 00:18:52:22 - 00:19:04:07 Speaker 2 why do you bite your nails? Or like a million other things and we can answer it with the same theory, which how why like that doesn't even like it's so cool that we can use series for that. But 00:19:04:13 - 00:19:05:17 Speaker 2 if that's the case, 00:19:05:17 - 00:19:09:18 Speaker 2 why then do I need to create a grounded theory right? 00:19:09:20 - 00:19:10:23 Speaker 2 For. 00:19:10:23 - 00:19:20:13 Speaker 2 Something that I'm interested in studying. Right. And like how is that going to be used in other ways, or is it are we just creating theory to create theory? 00:19:20:13 - 00:19:26:08 Speaker 2 And I think that's one of the big questions that I'm still wrestling with, with grounded theory. 00:19:26:10 - 00:19:34:21 Speaker 1 You know, in my field and leisure behavior, you know, I think I personally struggled with the at the very beginning of my studies of like what is leisure behavior? 00:19:34:21 - 00:19:42:02 Speaker 1 and again, I'm going to connect it with grounded here in a minute. But like but I think I had problems with understanding 00:19:42:02 - 00:19:51:16 Speaker 1 where some middle tacks like where they were coming from and why what like I felt like they weren't inclusive of is is because of the lack of inclusive. 00:19:51:16 - 00:20:13:04 Speaker 1 And when I say that meaning like like underrepresented groups in leisure behavior. And is that the reason for going a grounded theory approach? And if so, like, I mean, but then if I do that, that means that I'm not being open, you know? And so I guess that's where I'm hung up 00:20:13:04 - 00:20:15:14 Speaker 1 on the figure that's on that last page. 00:20:15:14 - 00:20:19:04 Speaker 1 It's like, okay, because I have all this previous knowledge, 00:20:19:04 - 00:20:20:03 Speaker 1 you know, 00:20:20:03 - 00:20:22:10 Speaker 1 I'm not going in being open at all. 00:20:22:10 - 00:20:31:20 Speaker 1 And so I'm really so now does that mean that I'm Strouse and Corbin? I'm going from 00:20:31:21 - 00:20:35:09 Speaker 2 I was literally just about to say that because, 00:20:35:09 - 00:20:41:01 Speaker 2 this starts on page 286 or what we've been calling the second page of the article. 00:20:41:01 - 00:20:48:03 Speaker 2 And at the very last ends on this page start, Strauss and Corbin recognize that the researcher 00:20:48:03 - 00:20:54:03 Speaker 2 has prior knowledge, including that of the literature, before starting their research. 00:20:54:05 - 00:20:54:18 Speaker 1 Yeah. 00:20:54:20 - 00:20:58:08 Speaker 2 They did not recommend dissociation from the literature. 00:20:58:08 - 00:21:04:13 Speaker 2 And I think that that is a valuable insight. Right. Because anytime you're researching anything 00:21:04:13 - 00:21:05:14 Speaker 2 virtually, 00:21:05:20 - 00:21:10:11 Speaker 2 I won't say always because I actually can think of a couple examples that that's not true. 00:21:10:17 - 00:21:19:12 Speaker 2 already know so much about it. And qualitative person you almost inherently do. Right? That's why you're interested in that topic. 00:21:19:14 - 00:21:20:07 Speaker 2 It's 00:21:20:07 - 00:21:22:14 Speaker 2 thinking sometimes of like the. 00:21:22:14 - 00:21:34:14 Speaker 2 Committee is that I've been asked to sit on and like, sometimes you get asked to sit on a committee about a topic of research that you're like, I just I don't this isn't my jam rant. And we're like, 00:21:34:14 - 00:21:43:03 Speaker 2 like I asked somebody to be on my one of my committees who I knew didn't care about that topic, but I also knew 00:21:43:03 - 00:21:44:21 Speaker 2 that I needed an outside person. 00:21:44:21 - 00:21:56:06 Speaker 2 And so I was just like, listen, you care about the methodology. I know you don't care about the topic. Like, this is going to be a really low bar for you, or here's what it's going to involve. Are you willing to do this and get whatever 00:21:56:06 - 00:21:56:23 Speaker 2 you get? Okay, great. 00:21:56:23 - 00:22:01:04 Speaker 2 Because sometimes you can't find people from outside your department that care about your topic. 00:22:01:04 - 00:22:11:15 Speaker 2 And I get it right. Or sometimes as a faculty member, you're just like, yeah, I want to support the students. Or I want to say yes, because, like, I know this kid and they're great and whatever and not kids that, 00:22:11:15 - 00:22:19:12 Speaker 2 and you just, you do the thing. Right? So like, sometimes you are involved in research that you're not super interested in, but most of the time you are. 00:22:19:12 - 00:22:26:13 Speaker 2 And if you're not super interested in it, usually you're there in a supervisory capacity anyway. If you're in it for 00:22:26:13 - 00:22:36:06 Speaker 2 the senior authorship or whatever it is. So like, I don't know, I think if you're actually in-depth exploring it, you're going to care about it on some level, right? 00:22:36:08 - 00:22:36:17 Speaker 1 Right. 00:22:36:18 - 00:22:40:07 Speaker 2 So you're going to know some of the literature, right? 00:22:40:09 - 00:22:44:20 Speaker 1 You should. You definitely should. And I think that's one of the reasons why I. 00:22:44:20 - 00:22:52:09 Speaker 1 And you've said this to me, especially in delving into a particular topic recently, a conversation that we have had 00:22:52:17 - 00:22:55:00 Speaker 1 is like, why are you 00:22:55:06 - 00:23:00:17 Speaker 1 going for that topic? Because it's like bright and shiny or you going for that? And I'm paraphrasing, of course. 00:23:00:21 - 00:23:05:01 Speaker 1 Or are you going for it because are you studying it because, like, 00:23:05:01 - 00:23:06:09 Speaker 1 you want to. 00:23:06:09 - 00:23:15:07 Speaker 1 And but this particular topic, because I won't mention it, it's because. 00:23:15:09 - 00:23:17:08 Speaker 1 Because I'm being forced, you. 00:23:17:10 - 00:23:19:09 Speaker 2 Know, I get it, I get it, I don't, you. 00:23:19:09 - 00:23:26:19 Speaker 1 Know, and and you know, so the question, you know, so I mean, I guess kind of bringing it back to, to grounded theory, you know, 00:23:26:19 - 00:23:37:20 Speaker 1 You have to be you have to be open, but I, I what degree I feel like it's like, what degree do I need to be open to to understanding this research and doing the research and, and what have you. 00:23:38:02 - 00:23:41:23 Speaker 1 The other thing that we talked about before we hit record was memos 00:23:41:23 - 00:23:51:23 Speaker 1 and when, when to memo and when not to memo. And the different when memos is enormously important because memo is important. 00:23:52:04 - 00:23:56:10 Speaker 1 But when you memo with different types of methodology. 00:23:56:13 - 00:24:03:13 Speaker 1 So that was something that we were talking about before, if you can like regurgitate what we were talking. 00:24:03:22 - 00:24:06:16 Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah yeah, yeah. So memos 00:24:06:16 - 00:24:12:19 Speaker 2 so when our first formal qualitative course that we both took together, 00:24:12:19 - 00:24:16:10 Speaker 1 We. 00:24:16:12 - 00:24:20:22 Speaker 2 We spent some time talking about memos in, in that course and 00:24:20:22 - 00:24:23:01 Speaker 2 that specific instructors, 00:24:23:01 - 00:24:23:19 Speaker 2 frame 00:24:24:01 - 00:24:32:05 Speaker 2 was that memos are used differently by different types of qualitative research depending on the research that they are doing. 00:24:32:05 - 00:24:40:06 Speaker 2 So, for instance, if you're going out a you're an education researcher and you're going into a K-12 classroom and you're sitting in the background 00:24:40:12 - 00:24:42:10 Speaker 2 doing some case studies 00:24:42:15 - 00:24:48:09 Speaker 2 maybe you're spending every day in that classroom for a month, and then you're going to write up a case study about it. 00:24:48:16 - 00:24:55:13 Speaker 2 You are going to memo constantly, and some people might call that memo in data. 00:24:55:20 - 00:25:02:03 Speaker 2 Some people might call that memo and just your field notes. Some people might call it something else, right. 00:25:02:12 - 00:25:09:06 Speaker 2 Typically when you and I do memo, when we're doing memos in in the middle of coding to the rest of our team to say, like, 00:25:09:15 - 00:25:10:18 Speaker 2 hey, this is memo. 00:25:10:18 - 00:25:11:02 Speaker 2 And, 00:25:11:05 - 00:25:15:22 Speaker 2 I was recently cleaning out a closet and I found a lot of my old dissertation notes, and it was like 00:25:16:03 - 00:25:19:07 Speaker 2 giant poster board, paper and newsprint, and I had 00:25:19:10 - 00:25:22:01 Speaker 2 sticky notes all over it. And 00:25:22:01 - 00:25:29:14 Speaker 2 like, arrows pointing this way in that way. And all of these chicken scratch pencil marks all over the place. And I thought this could be memos for some people. 00:25:29:17 - 00:25:31:15 Speaker 2 for me it's just random, 00:25:31:15 - 00:25:33:12 Speaker 2 like old research notes, right? 00:25:33:14 - 00:25:45:09 Speaker 2 But depending on the type of study you're doing, your memos actually might be your data, or it might just be your notes, or it might be an integrative communication process rather than just texting or emailing or something else. 00:25:45:12 - 00:25:48:03 Speaker 2 And so like I think memo line is such a, 00:25:48:04 - 00:25:50:23 Speaker 2 interesting thing within qualitative research. 00:25:50:23 - 00:25:59:16 Speaker 2 And I know we've talked about memos in on this podcast before. So you all have heard us talk about my mind, but it is such a critical part of qualitative research, and it's 00:25:59:18 - 00:26:02:18 Speaker 2 such a dynamic part. Right. And we 00:26:02:18 - 00:26:05:16 Speaker 2 don't always mean the same thing when we say memos. 00:26:05:18 - 00:26:09:00 Speaker 1 Right? Right, I mean, I so I still have my, 00:26:09:00 - 00:26:13:16 Speaker 1 notebook from my dissertation that I was memos in and, 00:26:13:16 - 00:26:17:13 Speaker 1 I don't know if I told you this one time I lost it. I lost my notebook. 00:26:17:13 - 00:26:18:22 Speaker 2 Oh, my God. 00:26:19:01 - 00:26:31:22 Speaker 1 So this is not again to to, to gain sponsorship through Kyle. But I had a tile taped to the back of the notebook. 00:26:31:22 - 00:26:37:09 Speaker 1 And I kept signaling for it, and it was going off in the library. 00:26:39:23 - 00:26:54:23 Speaker 1 And thankfully, somebody had picked it up and turned it into Lost and Found. And I was just like, oh my gosh. Like, that's my notebook. And they were like, describe it. So. But anyway, the point of the story is, 00:26:54:23 - 00:27:01:22 Speaker 1 with memos, it does look different. You know, I remember so the same professor, for some reason, if it wasn't him, I think it was somebody else. 00:27:02:00 - 00:27:04:05 Speaker 1 It was like, you know, when you're taking notes like 00:27:04:09 - 00:27:18:16 Speaker 1 the paper down in half and like, right on one side, your thoughts like, as you're doing, like, here's your interview, but on the other side of that paper, write your thoughts on what's going on. And he was like, where this instructor was like 00:27:18:16 - 00:27:22:05 Speaker 1 that, his memo. And I'm like, okay, I'm taking that and running with it. 00:27:22:07 - 00:27:32:06 Speaker 1 It's not that simple. I mean, not that it's simple, but I'm like, okay, so that's how I've run with like memos for me in the past. Now, 00:27:32:06 - 00:27:44:16 Speaker 1 the interesting thing, which I thought was I don't wanna say was missing, but maybe it was not intended for this particular paper. How grounded theory can be applicable to cactus programs 00:27:44:16 - 00:27:46:14 Speaker 1 to qualitative 00:27:46:14 - 00:27:47:23 Speaker 1 programs like in vivo. 00:27:47:23 - 00:27:53:04 Speaker 1 And at least I and and those. But maybe did you just. 00:27:53:04 - 00:27:54:21 Speaker 2 Say cactus programs. 00:27:54:21 - 00:28:05:21 Speaker 1 There's c a d it's C it it's an abbreviation. C I totally did was not doing totally did what I talked about. 00:28:05:21 - 00:28:10:02 Speaker 2 Not I just, I just needed to hear it out, you know? 00:28:10:02 - 00:28:16:00 Speaker 1 So I said I did something that we use like okay, so they're called cactus. So it's sort of a c. 00:28:16:00 - 00:28:17:01 Speaker 1 so anyway, 00:28:17:01 - 00:28:24:04 Speaker 1 I forget what the whole abbreviation is off the top of my head. But anyway, the point of the story is, is that I thought that was something, considering how. 00:28:24:04 - 00:28:46:12 Speaker 1 The year of this paper, they could have could have just put a little sliver in there, like a quick paragraph about, like, okay, when you're doing a grand theory approach, don't forget about how to use or if you're going to choose to use like Atlas Psi or in vivo or DOS or to get or 00:28:48:01 - 00:28:49:20 Speaker 1 some of these other programs, you know. 00:28:49:20 - 00:29:04:16 Speaker 1 So, I mean, I think that especially with the way that technology is forming now, I think that's something that's really, really important. And again, maybe that was not the intent of the authors, but that that was just something that came up like for me just right now, this thinking about it, 00:29:04:16 - 00:29:09:01 Speaker 1 but again, it's also like thinking about the role and the timing of the literature review. 00:29:09:10 - 00:29:16:00 Speaker 1 I mean, we've got programs now that hold our literature reviews, like Zotero or EndNote or 00:29:16:00 - 00:29:21:20 Speaker 1 so Tara or, you know, I can't think of any other ones there. 00:29:21:22 - 00:29:24:02 Speaker 2 There are other ones too. 00:29:24:02 - 00:29:26:04 Speaker 2 And like, as my students always say, 00:29:26:13 - 00:29:33:16 Speaker 2 well, can't I just use Google Scholar and get the citations from there? And I'm like, no, 00:29:33:16 - 00:29:34:16 Speaker 2 no, because. 00:29:34:16 - 00:29:36:12 Speaker 1 Sometimes it's wrong. 00:29:36:14 - 00:29:37:17 Speaker 2 It's always wrong. 00:29:37:20 - 00:29:40:02 Speaker 1 It's wrong. Like, I you know what I think is. 00:29:40:02 - 00:29:42:09 Speaker 2 Wrong 100% of the time? I just like 00:29:42:18 - 00:29:47:23 Speaker 2 spent so much time teaching them APA. And it is wrong 100% of the time. 00:29:48:03 - 00:29:56:03 Speaker 1 You know what? I will look up myself just for kicks. And I'm just like, that citation is wrong. Like who? Who did I have a. 00:29:56:03 - 00:29:57:07 Speaker 2 Google Scholar page? 00:29:57:13 - 00:29:59:06 Speaker 1 I have a Google Scholar page. Yeah. 00:29:59:08 - 00:30:03:07 Speaker 2 Yeah, that you correct every so often and it sends you emails about all the time. 00:30:03:12 - 00:30:17:08 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah. The you should have a Google Scholar page I do. Okay. Yeah. So everybody who's out there who's publishing definitely Google Scholar and what is the orchid ID or. Good. Or give. 00:30:17:17 - 00:30:17:23 Speaker 1 Yeah. 00:30:18:00 - 00:30:23:15 Speaker 2 But also I highly recommend if you're a student and you're creating your work ID 00:30:23:20 - 00:30:25:20 Speaker 2 Oh our c id 00:30:25:20 - 00:30:28:21 Speaker 2 it's not exactly spelled like orchid but everyone calls it that. 00:30:28:21 - 00:30:33:18 Speaker 2 Use your Gmail or your personal email and not your school email. 00:30:33:21 - 00:30:38:20 Speaker 2 Or connect it to both of them. Because when you move institutions, it is a nightmare to get that thing changed. 00:30:38:20 - 00:30:40:18 Speaker 1 So yeah. 00:30:40:20 - 00:30:42:09 Speaker 2 Do yourself a favor. 00:30:42:11 - 00:30:44:18 Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah, I definitely agree. 00:30:44:18 - 00:31:01:01 Speaker 1 you know, people are always in the way of transitioning the move or transitioning. And so keep try to keep you know what, y'all come to this podcast. You can listen to Grounded Theory. Here we are talking about publications listening. 00:31:01:05 - 00:31:04:00 Speaker 2 You're just given life advice 00:31:04:05 - 00:31:05:07 Speaker 2 research for life. 00:31:05:09 - 00:31:07:09 Speaker 1 It's more you know, 00:31:07:13 - 00:31:12:06 Speaker 1 bop bop bop bop. 00:31:12:08 - 00:31:17:12 Speaker 1 Right there. Anything else that we want to add? And in about this particular article, 00:31:17:14 - 00:31:19:19 Speaker 2 Wonderful question. 00:31:20:04 - 00:31:23:16 Speaker 2 Since we've now gone all the way around the mulberry bush, 00:31:25:00 - 00:31:26:19 Speaker 1 You know, I, I think. 00:31:26:23 - 00:31:28:13 Speaker 2 I think this is pretty good. 00:31:28:13 - 00:31:31:03 Speaker 2 I will say the only other thing. And then I wanted to 00:31:31:12 - 00:31:34:12 Speaker 2 just, like note here for 00:31:34:12 - 00:31:45:18 Speaker 2 people who are still newish to qualitative research and really want to get into grounded theory or are have a, like somebody who's recommending them do a grounded theory study. 00:31:45:20 - 00:31:52:21 Speaker 2 One of the notes I want to give you on this, depending on where you are in the world, is that this article was published out of the UK. 00:31:52:22 - 00:32:00:20 Speaker 2 And this isn't me hating on the UK. I think they do great work. And in fact, I think they're one of the leaders of qualitative research. But they do tend to 00:32:01:05 - 00:32:05:08 Speaker 2 write about qualitative research different than we do in the United States. 00:32:05:08 - 00:32:08:22 Speaker 2 And I know that we write about it differently than folks do around the world. 00:32:08:22 - 00:32:18:23 Speaker 2 And a lot of research is published out of the US or out of the UK or out of Europe, and it's usually English focused, and 00:32:19:01 - 00:32:20:02 Speaker 2 a real problem 00:32:20:02 - 00:32:25:13 Speaker 2 with research as a whole. That's not what we're here for right now, but I just need to note that. But 00:32:25:14 - 00:32:29:12 Speaker 2 difference between UK and US qualitative research, I think, is an. 00:32:29:17 - 00:32:34:14 Speaker 2 Important one to highlight for folks who maybe are really confused on something and 00:32:34:14 - 00:32:40:09 Speaker 2 like thinking that qualitative research isn't for them. Like don't be discouraged by an article like this or 00:32:40:18 - 00:32:43:00 Speaker 2 any textbook or what have you. 00:32:43:00 - 00:32:50:09 Speaker 2 There are others who have written about it. Maybe you can listen to our podcast and learn something. Maybe you can take a qualitative class and learn something, 00:32:50:18 - 00:32:51:08 Speaker 2 but. 00:32:51:10 - 00:32:57:14 Speaker 2 Or send us an email, send us a tweet for as long as that platform lives. 00:32:57:18 - 00:32:58:00 Speaker 2 You. 00:32:58:00 - 00:32:59:22 Speaker 1 Know, like, 00:32:59:22 - 00:33:13:02 Speaker 2 Let us know, like what questions you have about, like, how to actually do it. And if we're explaining it in the same way that this article we were talking about this article explaining that, like, let us know because we want to break down those walls and. 00:33:13:06 - 00:33:14:08 Speaker 1 Exactly. 00:33:14:09 - 00:33:21:17 Speaker 2 Like help people come to this work, because we love it. And we find so much joy in doing qualitative work, and we don't want to 00:33:22:02 - 00:33:23:13 Speaker 2 create more barriers for you. 00:33:23:13 - 00:33:24:15 Speaker 1 Right? Right. 00:33:25:00 - 00:33:32:00 Speaker 1 I think the one thing that I would like to do is actually bring this article to, and I think I've shared with you, Lizzy, doctor, Lizzy, 00:33:32:00 - 00:33:40:07 Speaker 1 the faculty learning community that I want to create at American University that talks about qualitative research. It's called Qualitative Inquirers. 00:33:40:16 - 00:33:42:20 Speaker 2 And I love that name. 00:33:42:20 - 00:34:06:20 Speaker 1 Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. So hopefully I'll be taking it off this fall. And I mean, I actually want to use this article as a kick off to be like, okay, this this is not like no article is perfect like that. All of our research, everybody has flaws. And I think this one, there's some pros and there's some cons to it and I, I'm like, let's discuss it. 00:34:06:20 - 00:34:28:19 Speaker 1 Like let's have and it's an easy lift to have that kind of a discussion. I think people sometimes are fearful of having a being vulnerable, being vulnerable amongst peers, you know. So I think that's what we're here to do is to, like you said earlier, to break down those walls and be able to have these discussions. Please, like send us an email at, 00:34:28:19 - 00:34:31:17 Speaker 1 cotton pod at gmail.com. 00:34:31:17 - 00:34:32:20 Speaker 1 I'm on there. 00:34:32:22 - 00:34:33:17 Speaker 2 I love it. 00:34:33:19 - 00:34:45:05 Speaker 1 Love it. You know, I mean, you can find us online, you know, like, look at our website, you know, thank you. Lizzy. Lizzy, Lindsey, the all the owls here. Lindsey, 00:34:45:05 - 00:34:54:11 Speaker 1 at American University for helping us with our, our website and everything. But, I mean, let's have the discussion like, let's be open and honest about all these approaches. 00:34:54:11 - 00:34:55:16 Speaker 1 And if you're confused, 00:34:55:16 - 00:35:01:20 Speaker 1 we're probably confused too. So it's all good. It's it's all good. Like, let's have that conversation. So, 00:35:01:20 - 00:35:06:03 Speaker 1 so anyway, without further ado, doctor Lizzy, is there anything else you want to add? 00:35:06:03 - 00:35:08:00 Speaker 2 No, I think they're great. I think this was 00:35:08:00 - 00:35:12:08 Speaker 2 really fun journal club to do. I had a lot of fun with this. And, 00:35:12:08 - 00:35:14:18 Speaker 2 if you all want us to do more Journal club, 00:35:14:18 - 00:35:16:04 Speaker 2 journals, let us know. 00:35:16:04 - 00:35:19:23 Speaker 2 because we can make this podcast what folks want it to be. 00:35:20:01 - 00:35:26:23 Speaker 1 Exactly, exactly. So without further ado, Doctor Lizzy, it's always a pleasure talking with you. 00:35:27:01 - 00:35:33:18 Speaker 2 Is Doctor Tiffany loved it. Thanks for your analysis and this journey that we went on. 00:35:33:20 - 00:35:37:20 Speaker 1 Yeah, we had our backpacks and everything and we had our nice treats and. 00:35:37:22 - 00:35:44:04 Speaker 2 All right, hit us, Gmail, Twitter or the website. Thanks. Off. 00:35:44:06 - 00:35:46:23 Speaker 1 Thank you. Cheers. Cheers.